Existed Except the Eyes of the Maharshi by
N.R. Krishnamurti Aiyer.
Oct. 29, 2001
Are You? An Interview With Papaji by Jeff
Greenwald. Oct. 24, 2001
Interview with Byron Katie by Sunny Massad.
Oct. 23, 2001
Interview with Douglas Harding by Kriben
Pillay. Oct. 21, 2001
Nectar of Immortality by Sri Nisargadatta
Maharaj. Oct. 18, 2001
Power of the Presence Part Two by David
Godman. Oct. 15, 2001
Quintessence of My Teaching by Sri
Nisargadatta Maharaj. Oct. 3, 2001
With David Godman. Sept. 28, 2001
Power of the Presence Part One by David
Godman. Sept. 28, 2001
Ever Happened Volume 1 by David Godman.
Sept. 23, 2001
with the Infinite by Suzanne Segal.
Sept. 22, 2001
of the Valley, the Bright and Morning Star by
Charlie Hopkins. August 9, 2001
• • • • • • • • •
email address is mailto:email@example.com
An Interview with
Byron Katie is the inventor
of The Work, a method of self-inquiry based on
four simple questions. She experienced an
unexpected awakening in 1986 following years of
By SUNNY MASSAD
Sunny Massad: Now did you even know
what freedom was before?
Katie: Yeah. Death! That was it. I obsessed
suicide. I thought I had to get dead to get
SM: So did you get married,
BK: Yeah, I got married. I married
the man I dated in high school. And then we had
three children. Then I divorced him. We were
together many, many years and married 14 and then,
several years after we divorced, I married a man
who I'm still married to and we've been married
almost 20 years and…just raised the children.
SM: And how old are your kids
BK: 36 and 31 and 29… I
SM: So, then what happened? I mean
you were just kind of moving through your life…did
you work? You were raising three kids…
BK: I always worked. I was always
self-employed. I always knew how to make money. I
was good at that. I was really good at that. Then
after my divorce I started becoming just very
depressed and…well, long before my divorce
actually. And pretty soon I couldn't leave my
house. It was very difficult. And then pretty soon
I couldn't leave my bedroom. I did that for like 8
to 10 years: the depression.
SM: And you continued to
BK: Yeah. As long as it was from my
bedroom. Cuz the work I did was over the phone.
And I could send other people to do what I
couldn't do. My story is what people have told me,
really, and so good you keep asking. [Long
pause.] Anyway, long story short, I ended up
in a halfway house.
SM: They were going to help your
|Reprinted with permission
|For more information about The
Noumenon Journal, click
|The footnotes in this
interview have been changed by Realization.org
to take advantage of Web
said this is your husband. I said, good. These are
your children. I said, good. Your name is Katie.
Okie dokey." |
BK: Yeah. I was very suicidal, very
depressed. Agoraphobic. Paranoid. Really pretty
hopeless. Just obsessing the suicide. Many years.
So I went to this halfway house and…the women were
so afraid of me that I was put in an attic — that
was the only way I could stay. They put me in an
attic up above. And I slept on the floor in there.
And one morning I was asleep on the floor and I
felt this thing crawl over my foot and I looked
down and it was a cockroach. I opened my eyes and…
[pause] what was born was not me…and, the
way I tell it is…she rose, she walked, she
apparently talked. She was delighted. It is so
ecstatic to be born and not born. It sees, and
sees everything, without a concept. It's amazing.
SM: Now, you're in the attic, the
cockroach crawls over your foot, and you have an
opening of some sort?
BK: That's it. Most
a longer account of this experience, see the
article "About The Founder" on Byron Katie's
SM: Would it work to call it a
sustained transcendent experience?
BK: I don't really call it
SM: Well, would the words match
considering how it's described here? [I point
to Maslow's description of transcendence, and then
my description of sustained
BK: I would say, yes. Everything. It
transcended itself and itself was everything. It
totally transcended that. It's like this. Every
moment's like this. It's like if you… [lifts
hand in front of face] is to be amazed. Just
to see this hand, is amazing! I mean, I eat that
food [points to the food], I am eating
myself. It is so good! I mean, every moment, It is
Itself now. But to see this, you get still with
that. Or this. And you die. You dissolve into it.
Anyone would. Just to get still. And I call it,
who we are without a story. But it's…I call it
love, because I don't have another word. But just
to see my hand in front of my face, or my foot, or
the table, or anything, it's to see it for the
first time. Here are the words that I would use:
'It's a privilege beyond what can be told.' It's
self experiencing the mere image of itself…born
[inaudible — in love?].
BK: Yeah. They said this is your
husband. I said, good. These are your children. I
said, good. Your name is Katie. Okie dokey.
SM: So you truly had a
disidentification. Even of memory?
BK: Everything. Everything.
SM: So how did your behaviour
BK: Radically. Radically. Extreme
opposite. It took a 180-degree shift. Totally.
SM: So, some practical things: You
were spending vast quantities of time in bed, you
were depressed, and when the shift
SM: No time in bed?
BK: None. Three hours sleep and not
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